Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:27:44 -0500
From: "Mary Ellen Pull"
Subject: Re/Joyce (clever?)

On to Joyce!

Kevin, you are quite right--Joyce "doesn't always speak straightforward plains talk," and I appreciate all the insight you can offer. Your reference to the novel was super--I enjoy word pictures and illustrations better than lectures that tend to get boring. I see the traditional essay as a time-saving device for teachers, so we don't have to figure out the ramblings of students. We can find the thesis (my son's professor even demands that his students underline their theses) and evaluate the thinking process involved in the development. The MVE offers an electronic "marketplace of ideas" to be discussed. I see merit in both.

Your "confession" of being "a mouse with a plan" surprised me until I realized that I have told my students to tell stories of their lives that illustrate their "thesis" instead of pointing fingers by writing, "You should not take drugs because my mom really messed up my life by being an addict." I do have them write theses because I want them to learn to handle one idea at a time to avoid chasing rabbits. I think more experienced writing groups would find staying on topic (coherence) quite a bit easier.

Joyce repeats "we must be aware of our desires and wary of what we are rapidly becoming used to in their representations, for what we are used to we too often become used by" (164-5). I understand this in reference to the web becoming a billboard for advertising that "uses" us as consumers, but some of his other meanings are obscure. Anyone care to explain other meanings?

When I read, "communication involves no longer so much the substance of what we say, but more of its expression and construction," I thought that is opposite of Shakespeare's plea for "More matter with less art." Which do we want to teach our students in freshman comp--creative writing or exposition? Can we do both?

I agree that our students need to be concerned with "knowing about," but, again, I like to challenge them to "know" where they stand at a particular point in time. If we are "in the midst of making a new culture" as Joyce says, isn't it important to "know about" current culture, but then to "know" where we want to go from here? To me, the block quote at the end describes "formless and void" or utter chaos. Being open to possibilities is one thing, but throwing out the rulebook invites anarchy. Am I the only one who wants firm ground to build on instead of shifting sand?

Mary

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